Wednesday, October 26, 2011

So I Had A Funny Feeling

So our week got alot better. No, not really. We incurred the single largest lost ever seen by this corp yesterday. We lost two Orcas and two Tengus. Which was enough to get us kicked from our alliance, Talocan United. Here, let me make sure that's searchable.

Which was, of course, just an excuse. They had already been considering removing us. But on to what happened, since that's why you're really here.

We all got on that evening and decided we needed to head home and run the sites that had accumulated there, not having known that Tado and Dead Space had lost a Noctis and Drake earlier in the day, which of course, we were blamed for in my mail explaining why we were kicked. Talocan would like your corp to be on 24/7, have no life, no kids, no wives, and no job, apparently. But we didn't know about those losses, and we sure as heck weren't on to defend him. Guess that makes us at fault. It gets better because he had no fucking clue we WERE in that hole at the time. Nice job of assuming making you look like an ass, Nathan.

Anyhow, so the gravs were gone, Tado's crew handled the combats, so we headed home. And found out that our wormholes were TWO jumps from each other. That whole "same Region" thing was finally paying off. Or it was random chance, I don't know. So we packed up the Orcas with as much Arkonor as they could hold, and I made a fateful decision to "just take the warp stabs off this once".

Sometimes I hate it when I'm right.

So we made the two jumps and we popped in, and the faster ships started warping while a couple of us hung around to guard the Orcas at the hole, which was EoL, so most likely no one was coming through.

As a couple of the combat ships landed at the off grid space beneath the POS and were assigned fighters by the carrier above, combat probes appeared. Hmm. Checking DSCAN, no ships other than our own appeared, so I called for everyone to warp to the off grid bookmark.

To those that don't know, we use a bookmark immediately below the POS, immediately off grid from it, because our POS is surrounded by mobile warp disruptors as traps for both ships and cloakers. When scanning for ships, you can quickly see while probing and assume that ships at this bookmark are inside the POS.

Except in this case, here's what I surmise what happened. Prior to us entering the wormhole, our corpmate that was still inside had logged in his character while we were making our way home and ran his PI. These people that eventually jumped us were probably searching for him, and had ignored all the ships at our POS. This enabled them to quickly be able to scan down the ships as they waited for the Orcas to jump to them at the off grid bookmark.

As the two Orcas entered warp to the bookmark, an Arazu uncloaked to the offgrid and started attacking one of the Tengus. The second Tengu arrived and they destroyed it. As both Orcas landed, more ships landed, a very identical fleet in composition to the one that jumped us a few days back. Machariel, Tengu, Hurricane, etc etc. So rather than lose it all, everyone that could get away warped up to the POS. I popped out the ECM drones and actually escaped a point on an Orca, but was quickly jammed and pointed by another ship.

In short, we ended up losing two Tengus that had been flying CAP, and both Orcas, fitted not with Warp Stabs, but with cargo expanders, because it was just two jumps.

Yep, in the end, I'm in charge, so the blame is mine alone. That's fine. I can live with that and I'll hope to change my decisions in the future to reflect my experiences. But it's wormhole space, and crazy shit happens. I can point at what I did wrong and learn from it.

However, the current leadership of Talocan United are hypocrites in the extreme. We've been kicked for our losses, but in reality, we had been on the chopping block for some time as examples of what and who they don't want in their "elite" alliance of wormhole corps. They are on the verge of making PvP ops mandatory. They whine and complain constantly about how not enough people show up for this op or that wormhole invasion.

Funny how their website paints a completely different picture than what Talocan United actually is. There have been major arguements over this on the Director forums. Zariah routinely throws major meltdown fits over it in chat and in Alliance public. He recently "quit the alliance" due to things not going his way, so he was going to take his ball and go home. The guy is a self described "twat" and a "cunt".

And most of the alliance is sick of his bullshit. So in that, our removal is really a relief from his childish rants and raves, and Nathan's inability to control him. I'm incredibly glad we're out. As of last Alliance dues, we were the third largest corp in the alliance. We showed up for numerous alliance ops since our joining, and nothing was ever enough for these people.

To a point, I can sympathize with them when not enough people show up for planned operations. I've run large alliances in other games before. I know how frustrating it is when people just don't care as much as you do. But the arguement of "people have lives, wives, and families" isn't good enough for these guys. You really should be on 24/7, have no life or job to speak of. You should be playing Eve! Well guess what? When you don't have anything meaningful in your life to take you away from Eve, I guess it's okay for you to invest yourself that much into a videogame.

But the majority of us living out here in real life land aren't willing to do that.

Talocan United as a general alliance is great. The people are willing to do extraordinary things to help you out and to socialize with you. I will miss a number of them very much. The "leadership", on the other hand, can DIAF for all I care. They show a complete lack of respect for people and their playstyles. Yes, their website says completely the opposite, but be warned, they want to make you one of them, one of the people who take "Internet Spaceships Seriously!". There's a limit to what most normal, well adjusted people will take in a video game, and they really expect too much.

And, to round that all out, Nathan and Zariah are giant hypocrites when it comes to ship losses. Until last week, my corp hadn't lost more than a single stealth bomber in over a year.

Here's Zariah losing an Orca. Nope, no warp stabs there. Guess you should kick him out for that, huh? Fucking hypocrites.

Here's a Mastadon that Zariah lost. Doing a run for POS fuel and mods alone, were we? For shame! Douchebaggery!

Got caught in your Buzzard and lost your POD did you? In a Cov ops??? That smacks of incompetence, right? Kind of hard to catch those cov ops.

Here's a nice CNR loss since we're busy making up excuses. WTG Nathan!

Another one!? Really? Kick him! OMG! Poor combat choice!

In the end, who cares. Behind each and every loss there's a story. And in Eve, most of the time it isn't the majority of the fault of the victim. I've never been one to shrug off the loss and say "Oh well, we'll replace it." I need to learn from every mistake I make. But it's a damn video game, and life comes first. In Talocan United, the alliance comes first. You get to have your say in your hole, but god help you if you disagree about something with either of the two aforementioned leaders. The alliance is going through a phase right now where it doesn't know what it wants to be. It contains people from all walks of Eve life, and a vocal minority, much akin to extreme politics, are driving the majority to a place they don't want to go. People don't want and can't maintain weekly alliance PvP ops. They can't and don't want to muster out at someone's beck and call while they are trying to maintain their own systems.

Helping fellow alliance members out is one thing, but all the TU leadership want is serious e-peen so they can swing it around with the likes of Narwals and Aquila.

But it doesn't matter to me, my corpmates are standing by me like they always have, and I'll keep the friends I had. We'll be more at risk if they come across us, since the leadership harbors serious grudges and talks alot of shit about people that leave the alliance.

But it's Eve and we'll endure. It's just a game, remember? Pass me the cheetohs.


  1. Wow thats a good write up. Kinda sucks really but I am confused by your 'bashing' and counter links.

    Lets disect my information as your posting links.
    Nathan has a 76.22% Pilot efficiency.
    Over the life time on the Talocan kill boards he has killed 121 and lost 12. Yes some very costly mistakes but still over 2:1 on the isk front.
    Link :

    Zariah has a 80.84% Pilot efficiency.
    Over the life time on the Talocan kill boards has killed 43 and lost 8. Yes a couple of silly losses again but a ratio of over 4:1 on the isk front.
    Link :

    Now regarding Zariah I'm also told he is a one man corp meaing his killboard should be refelctive of his corp Talocan Hive.

    44kills, 18 losses.
    Corp efficency of 90.54% :O
    An isk kill to loss ratio of nearly 10:1
    Guy maybe a cock but he is pretty effective.

    Now I compare that to Heretical Innovations
    Kills 24 Losses 11 not bad however a Corp efficiency of 17.89% Thats a pitiful 1:4.5 kill to loss isk ratio.

    I think we may have found the root of your removal. Its never nice when your kicked from somewhere but just count your lucky stars they didnt do what alot of alliances do and take your shit before kicking you out.

  2. We're with you man. Anything you need, you let us know.

    Knight and Zun

  3. Well typed.

    probably my favourite blog entry to read thus far!

    Im glad i found a good group of laid back guys that know life comes first.

  4. Does that have any affect on the wormholes that you live in or is it business as usual?

    You don't use a ship with double webbers to get those orcas to insta-warp?

    At least one warp core stab is welded in place on my Orca.

    Duncan McCloud

  5. I could post our removal eve mail, but it would just lead to more bashing, and I've done enough. Suffice to say it was very unprofessional and really points at the direction the alliance is heading in. We were accused of "douchebaggery", which does not mean what they think it means, to quote a fav movie. Losing internet spaceships doesn't make anyone douchebags, that's best left to how you treat other people.

    Sure, our corp kills aren't great, but when you tell people they don't have to be great at PvP and killboards aren't used as a basis to judge you, you're going back on your ideals.

    Posting those links isn't to say "Look these guys are terrible." My point is that everyone makes mistakes, and if you're going to hold everyone to some sort of "You can't do stupid stuff, ever!", then guess what? Those links represent mistakes made by the very people telling us we made too many.

    We don't make horrendous stupid mistakes on a routine basis. We don't jump through holes without scouting. We don't assume some guy sitting somewhere is alone. We do our homework. But we do make mistakes.

    Talocan United has decided it wants to go in a "PvP oriented alliance" direction, contrary to what their website claims, and contrary to a good amount of corps in it. So they're going to get rid of the ones that don't conform to that vision.

    Duncan, yes, we usually have those warp stabs on there. It was the lure of only two jumps home and the ability to take some of the Arkonor along that persuaded me. It certainly won't happen again, and I hope it serves as an object lesson if anyone else finds themselves reaching for the fitting window.

    Wormhole life will continue as usual. We'll be pulling out of the wormhole we share with Dead Space, as we do not want them to have a conflict of interests, although I'm sure that Tado will have some new neighbors thrown in with him in short order.

    Again, our removal is a breath of fresh air and a sigh of relief. No longer will I be pressured to do things I do not want to do, get into arguements with a moron about his conduct, and be expected to play Eve any other way than how I want to play it.

  6. So a wormhole alliance expecting you to check the DOTLAN data for wormholes you are moving billions worth of ISK through is somehow a request for 24/7 occupancy and no life requirements? I do not see the link there.

    This is really really simple basic day 1 wormhole security stuff, failing to do that when dealing with hideous amounts of ISK makes your indignation pretty amusing to be honest.

  7. As I have seen you have decided to filter any discussion on your post I will direct this straight to you - you are terrible at wormhole work and I deeply hope you return to it.

    Be a little cautious with recruitment :) you will be seeing me at some point. And no, the character will not have been in Talocan United.

  8. +1

    They advertise themselves as a very friendly alliance who wants to help in W-Space.
    They acts like some stupid military lieutenant who never learn anything about life.

    Never listen the advertisement of Talocan United : liars

  9. Actually, Anonymous, you make my point for me. You assume I'm filtering when, in fact, I have a life before I run home to make sure your post isn't spam before I put it up!

    Again, I enjoy your accusations based on a couple bad encounters. And again, it's too bad you don't judge yourselves on your own actions. You are far above reproach, apparently, and also are vindictive hypocrites on top of it.

    Pot to kettle, incoming transmission, you're black! I seem to remember, if we'll lay it all out on the table, a Talocan wormhole invasion where they "forgot" to watch the incoming wormhole.....and many many ships were lost. What did you do then? Stomp your feet and cry and kick people out? Or did you learn from that encounter?

    I welcome your attempt at infiltrating my corp. Are you going to get a voice filter?

  10. And I see you've linked this post on your forums! Thanks for saving me the trouble, and thanks for the traffic.

  11. Wow, really? Your threatening to try to destroy his corp cause you talocan guys are a bunch of twats? I bet new corps coming in would love to know about that "option" they can look forward to

    get over it its a game

  12. I was to understand that internet spaceships was serious business. Next you'll be telling me that pro wrestling is fake and the Abominable Snowman doesn't exist.


  13. (Let's see... how do I sign this properly instead of hiding behind some chickenshit Anom tag? Ahh, there we go.)

    Heretic, you will be missed by me, if by no one else; I thought you were one of the few voices of reason (and basic grammar and spelling).

    I may smack my forehead a few times at the events you've gone through in the last few weeks (noting the mistakes you've already caught), but at the same time you're learning, and (aside from that) hitting quite a few nails Dead. On.

    Good luck to you and yours -- you've nothing to worry about from me and mine -- hope to see you again in better times.

  14. Baha. This is entertaining. At least have the cajones to leave a comment under your in game name.